Unplated: An Interview with Riina Hannula
On the limits of dichotomies, fermentation, and the human as holobiont
This conversation is part of the Unplated series, a collection of interviews with folks whose work intersects with food, but who work outside culinary spheres. My hope is that these conversations not only spark your curiosity, but help you think about how what you eat is connected to the world well beyond your plate.
Riina Hannula is a doctoral candidate in the University of Helsinki sociology department as well as a visual artist, whose work explores microbial social sciences and the human as holobiont.
I first encountered Riina's work on Instagram, and was immediately head over heels with her interdisciplinary approach. I see a lot of overlap between the ways we both approach our research, viewing a topic using several different disciplinary and practical lenses in order to perhaps achieve a fuller, richer picture.
But we each do so in unique ways, and I find Riina's work, which brings together art and interactivity to the research space, to be wildly inspiring. Here, we talk about interdisciplinary practice, science and embodiment, and the limits we place on ourselves and our microbiomes by thinking in dichotomies.
JS: First of all, tell me a bit about yourself. Where/what are you studying, and how did you come to be so fascinated with the world of microbes?
RH: I am an artist and doctoral student at the University of Helsinki. I approach microbial agency by a science and technology studies approach where social scientists collaborate in different ways with natural scientists for instance. I have an enthusiastic relationship with microbial communities within me and around me. My artistic and academic practice stems from a sort of exposure to different ecologies that invite me. I guess I can't help it, it's the agency of these little companions that attract me and make me want to do something creative and ask questions.
JS: You study the sociology of microbes: How do you define this for people who are unfamiliar with the concept?
RH: There are different ways to conduct science and technology studies on a topic and theme of microbes. My approach is to understand the embodiment of the science: how scientific understanding of our microbiome for instance changes the perception of our bodies.
JS: I love how your work is in part a collaboration between the seen and unseen, and asks us to consider parts of the world we often overlook. What is the benefit of making art with and about microbes? What unique insights do they offer us?
RH: Studying microbes as a non-microbiologist has the benefit of investigating also what kind of conceptualizations and categories we give to living entities via natural scientific framing and popular discourse.
One of the first things can be for instance to see how we keep on reproducing dichotomies that seem quite artificial. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense to think in terms of these binaries like host and quest anymore, because microbes constitute us entirely. Even if the microbiome is changing constantly according to what we eat and where we are hanging out we kind of need to think about them beyond self and other.
JS: What role does food and beverage fermentation play in your work? How does food (fermented or otherwise) enhance your artistic practice?
RH: Well I do love fermenting, although I would love to do it more myself and eat more self-fermented food! Fermenting hasn't played a central role in my work but I did touch upon it in one video work where I was making yogurt out of my companion goat's milk. In that work, the microbial exposure with my companion goats and the circulating microbes from between our metabolising bodies and the soil and plants was the starting point to create new modes of care.
JS: I'm fascinated by your Microbial Medi(t)ation and the accompanying exercise. Could you describe this a bit for readers? How does participation in this research/event help us understand our holobiont (or become a macro-level holobiont)?
RH: The baseline of the Microbial Medi(t)ation is to do self-care practice that becomes a multispecies-care practice and our bodies change the same way from individual to multiplicity. It's a somatic and immersive audio work to experience what it is to be a body emerging in the light of the understanding that science provides. It's also a try to feel and explicitly imagine what the facts about human-microbial existence are implying. Sometimes medical facts, anatomy and scientific representations of gut microbiota can be alienating, but they still change how we think about our bodies, so I want Microbial Medi(t)ation to work in that gap between science and its embodiment.
JS: You also research the vagus nerve. How do ferments and our own microbiome connect with the vagus nerve? How can food help us not only stay healthy, but also tap into the wisdom of our nervous system?
RH: Microbial Medi(t)ation guides you through different body movements and yoga poses that are proposed to activate the vagus nerve: If you tune this nerve that is in charge of bringing you to rest and digest-state many health benefits might start arising from it. At the same time, this nerve also signals between the gut and brain and hands over microbial info to the brain sort to say.
Isn't that wonderful set of features inviting to look at our bodies from the multispecies well-being point of view? I am not a health expert, and my study with the vagus nerve is yet again not a neuroscientific take.
In the sociological research, I tap into the meaning-making about and with microbial partners. But, I am super interested in the studies that show how Lactobacillus reuteri, for example, directly influences the brain via the vagus nerve, and changes behavior of the 'host' by reducing anxiety, etc.
These studies are done with mouse models so it might be too early to claim there are similar mechanisms happening in our human bodies. But we seem to learn a lot about the bacteria and fungi we need in fermenting processes being the same ones that take care of our guts, and the same ones that produce neurochemicals that could be defined as beneficial to us.
But also, would it be nice to think beyond good and bad microbes (another dichotomy)? Of course, I want to feed my microbes well, but I am not sure if I can totally control the situation anyway... and I would love to tune my vagus nerve for the benefit of our coexistence and the well-being of the environment too, but I am not sure how these things work so I rather snoop around.
Sometimes I feel that this attunement and listening is The Benefit because then you maybe let go of control. The meaning of Meditation is that I let microbes mediate their wisdom. And to conclude, I am sure it's a nicer world where we are interested in other species and let them teach us, and I think fermenting is just that.
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Unplated: An Interview with Riina Hannula
Wow, super interesting because it’s covered a few things that I’ve only recently learned about.
Just yesterday I was reading about the vagus nerve and how stimulating seems to play an important role in dealing with autoimmune diseases. However they were using electronic devices costing $$$ to attach to your ear to give pulses at set frequencies and durations to stimulate the nerve. This put me off but I’d like to learn more about yoga stimulating it?
Now the reason I came across this was because I’ve recently started Helminthic therapy. This is where I introduce a small number of human hookworms (Necator americanus) to my body in order to help with my coeliac disease (luckily I don’t suffer poor health because I stick to the diet). I was particularly interested in hosting the hookworms as I am a farmer and as part of the hookworm’s life cycle they need to be in the soil, so the statement “healthy soil, healthy humans” is quite literal!
Now I learned all this from a group of people, often suffering multiple illnesses and multiple auto-immune diseases who have taken it upon themselves to self treat because modern medicine isn’t working.
The suggestion of L. reuteri also came up as a way to improve one’s mood, and even though these days I’d say I’m pretty happy, the idea that I could eat yogurt that might play with my mood was instantly something I had to try. I’ve ordered some probiotics and will pick them up this weekend on a trip to the city and make a 36 hour yogurt with them. I might be bouncing with joy (and microbes) this time next week 😂
Thanks Julia!!